Comments on Bernard Avishai Dot Com: Palestinian State In The Making

The Palestinians can't collaborate their way to fr...

2009-09-27T09:12:11.009-04:00

The Palestinians can't collaborate their way to freedom; they will have to win it by violence exactly as Israelis and Americans did.

all a pipe dream unfortunately. while the majority...

2009-09-25T14:31:03.179-04:00

all a pipe dream unfortunately. while the majority of Jews NOW argue about how much of a state the Palestinians should have the Palestinians argue whether
Jews have the right to state .

All a pipe dream fed by an opium pipe a la a Hebrew republic etc.

For peace to take root, in other words, a Palestin...

2009-09-24T19:40:57.921-04:00

For peace to take root, in other words, a Palestinian business class will have to engender a civil society—people networked to the region and the world, developing a secular state as a counterpart to their combined enterprises. If Israel really wanted peace, wouldn’t it do everything in its power to facilitate this?

It would seem. In other words, the opportunity and the desire for Palestinians ( or any human society) to live normal healthy creative prosperous lives will have to compete with ( as Y. Ben-David sees it) "their cause"- which I take to mean destroying Israel somehow. That is a no brainer risk Israel should take if israel really wanted peace. It's a big "if" and a good question. As long as Israel can prevail occupation and force, AND prosper, there is no need for compromise or peace.

Building a secular state, and a civil society requires economic enterprise which requires a civil secular society to thrive. Even in Israel, where religious fundamentalism also thrives, this is true. Israel needs it's business class.

Stan-I must admit that you have totally confused m...

2009-09-22T05:30:38.141-04:00

Stan-I must admit that you have totally confused me. When I point out that no Arab state has anything close to the social-political-economic system that Dr Avishai claims the Palestinians are going to develop (because HE thinks that is what is best for them) you say I am a racist (you don't even refute what I am saying). But then you turn around and say that racism is "abhorrent" because you, as a Jew, have a "superior" moral-ethical system. Then you top it off by saying that the Palestinians will indeed develop in a way superior to the other Arabs because they are "smarter than the other Arabs" because they supposedly are "racially" related to the Jews!

Stan-I must admit that you have totally confused m...

2009-09-22T05:30:21.729-04:00

AS I strongly believe that Mr Y.Ben-David and Mr. ...

2009-09-21T17:36:50.997-04:00

AS I strongly believe that Mr Y.Ben-David and Mr. Bernard Avishai are same person advancing diferent point of view on the subject. I will try to argue my point against both views. First Mr. Bernald Avishai is coming in with "elite" side viewpoint "What is good for GM is good for unwashed masses" to paraphrase it to North American jargon. Unfortunately for Mr. Avishai and the corrupted "Palestinian leaders" most of the Palestinians are under 20 years old, did you ever see young person agreeing with old self interested person? One thing I can say about Palestinians they are not stupid ( Research shown that most of them are of Kohanim genetic background) Mr. Ben-David forwards the fundamentalist religious view. The Arabs are no good, not really human, just welfare bums. Being Jew originally from eastern Europe, I find this view abhorant and distasteful. No REAL Jew, after 2000 years of our treatment on the hands of others, can even consider it. I believe there is a 3rd option, what I call Netanyahu - Lieberman - Benny Morris one state option. No Palestinian state, One state Israel, not a tribal Jewish state but state for Jews, Palestinians etc based on Jewish secular traditions. You don't like it you would have to leave or be thrown out - Jews or Arabs. And then build the country - economically, socially etc. Unfortunately for it to succeed there would have to some type of secular dictatorship installed or good marketing showing monetary benefits. We are moving toward global or at least regional government entities. The Middle East for some reason is moving backward toward the tribalism fueled by religious intolerance on both sides

Well, what will this conclude then??? I hope it wi...

2009-09-21T17:18:40.189-04:00

Well, what will this conclude then??? I hope it will be something positive and constructive for our country as well.

Such a beautiful scenario-if only everyone in the ...

2009-09-21T04:27:17.415-04:00

Such a beautiful scenario-if only everyone in the Arab world thought like Dr Avishai. The only problem is that having a "Palestinian state living in peace and prosperity side-by-side with Israel" would be viewed by the rest of the Arab/Muslim world as treason and a betrayal of their cause. If indeed a Palestinian state wwould be established at some point, the Arab/Muslim world would view its job NOT "to improve the lives of the Palestinian people", but rather to function as a continuing thorn in the side of Israel and as a vessel for maintiain the low-level war of attrition the Arab world has been directing at Israel since the Yom Kippur War which proved to the Arabs that Israel can't be knocked out in a single blow. Thus, setting up a "prosperous Palestinian economy" is not a high priority.
Dr Avishai thinks that a "new generation of "managers and investors" are going to "push aside" the "corrupt, old FATAH people". Who says the FATAH people are going to go along with this? THEY HAVE THE ARMED MILITIAS, not the "managers and financiers" and they are not going to allow themselves to be pushed aside in the name of "econoic development". Certainly, in the Arab world, there are "financiers and managers" who are trying to develop their economies, but they are ALL under the thumbs fo the political echelons who maintain strict control of the ecomomic class, knowing that these people can threaten their control. Where in the Arab world is there a country run along the lines Dr Avishai is advocating? In Jordan, for example, investors see a big pool of cheap labor, yet in the textile industries set up in the wake of the peace agreement with Israel, the workers are imported from China and Bangladesh. So the average Jordanian Arab worker doen't want to work there nor to benefit from this outside investment.
Dr Avishai's dream is based on teh Arabs giving up their ancient Muslim heritage, changing their views towards goverment which supports autocracy, cleaning up endemic corruption and cronyism; in short, reinventing themselves as a different people.
I should also point out his statement of a Palestinian state absorbing 2 million refugees is a total fanatasy. The Palestinians of the West Bank view them as aliens and will not want them there. Look at a map...there is no room for them. They will do anything to prevent them being absorbed there. In any event, they have been living on UNRWA handouts for decades so they are not about to join the workforce Dr Avishai is dreaming about.
Time to return to reality.